DRAFT FILED: 5/1/01
Final Approval: 6/20/01
VILLAGE OF CROTON-ON-HUDSON, NEW YORK
WATER CONTROL COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF APRIL 18,2001
A meeting of the Water Control Commission was held on April 18.2001
MEMBERS PRESENT: Sally Odland, Chairman
Mark Goldfarb
Stuart Greenbaum
Charles Kane
Marc Albrecht
ALSO PRESENT: New Member : Mary Cane
The meeting came to order at 7:30P.M.
HEARING:
Banje Milenka/Ernest Heincke, High Street, Section 67.20 Block 4 Lot 42.01. Request for a Wetlands Activity Permit with respect to a proposed one-family dwelling.
Neighbors present: Louis Balazs, 19 High St.
Dan McGuire, 17 High St.
McGuire - Asked how close to a wetland is construction allowed?
Odland - We have a Prohibited Zone of 100 ft. and a Protective Buffer Zone of 20 ft.
Discussion followed over plans.
Milenke - (Referring to plans) it may change a little bit, but not much. The stream will remain open. I have spoken to Kary Ioannou, Village Engineer about my plans.
Odland - Any possibility of moving the construction back further? I am concerned about the stream.
Melenke - How far? I need a scale.
Discussion followed over plans
Greenbaum - If we had a rain like last year this would be washed out.
Melenke -This is an existing brook or trench. I asked Kary Ioannou if we could move this and he said yes.
Odland - You say Kary Ioannou said the stream could be re-routed to a further distance?
Melenke- Yes.
Odland - We need to discuss the value of this as a wetland. This Steam starts up at the Golf Course and flows behind Mt. Green Rd. and between Old Post Rd. North and acts as a stream ,that goes past a few houses and at some point it was leveled and filled and it merges on this property. It flows open thirty or forty feet and goes to a storm drain to the Hudson. It is definitely a wetland to the North and it is a highly engineered stream at this point.
Odland - What plans do you have to keep construction debris from coming into the stream during construction?
Melenke - While excavating we will keep a staging area and when material comes in we will protect with silt fencing and hay bales.
I will put gravel underneath.
Kane - During the excavation process where would you store the fill that is being removed?
Discussion followed over plans - the applicant pointed to the North rear of the property and stated that there will be a trench at left rear of the property. All fill will be hauled away.
Albrecht- The trenches will be in the culvert near the brook?
Goldfarb - Where is the sewer going?
Melenke - Referred to the survey and pointed to the lower left side of the property. The sanitary sewer runs adjacent to the stream.
Albrecht - What are the required setbacks?
The applicant referred to the survey showing setbacks on plans.
Odland - Are there any member that have not seen the site?
All but one member indicated they saw the site.
Odland - We need to review and discuss this further.
Melenke- we will put a stone wall to protect the property and drainage.
Discussion followed over plans.
Odland - It sounds like most of the water from the lot will be diverted away from the lot and into the stream.
Melenke - The biggest surge of water comes from the south side.
Kane - Where does this storm drain emerge?
Odland - Straight down to the Hudson River.
Odland - This is not a stream that is a habitat, but it is a conduit to the Hudson River.
Odland - Are there any other questions or comments?
McGuire - I own the house above this property. Has everyone seen the site?
Odland - All but one.
McGuire - It is important that you see the site.
Mr. McGuire - Questioned the size of the property and legal setback required from the stream.
Odland - It is not a setback it is a protected zone. There is to be no activity within the 20 ft. zone. There are times activity is allowed, but with special conditions. We apply it on a case-by-case basis.
McGuire - This is my property and this is the only access for water that shoots down the river through the sewer line. When the water comes down from Hudson National Golf Course it goes underground into an l8 inch pipe. I have pictures of what happened to my property during the last storm. This is why that stream must stay open.
Odland (to the applicant) - I understand your final plan is for this stream to remain open. Is that correct?
Melenke - Yes.
McGuire - Submitted pictures for the Boards review of a little stream under a neighbor's house which runs underground and it all flows down hill. There is a retaining wall and it all comes down normally and this is how it came through our yards and the other night when it rained it came through again. These are pictures from the "Floyd" storm. You must see these properties to see what is going on.
Discussion followed over pictures.
Balazs - I also have pictures of my house and the damage that was done during the storm.
Odland - When we are finished reviewing Mr. McGuire's pictures we will look at yours.
McGuire - The storm washed out my patio and almost washed it right down the hill.
Mr. Heincke - Can I also speak?
Odland - Absolutely when Mr. Balazs is finished.
Discussion continued over photos.
Odland- Drew a sketch showing the location of Old Post Rd. , High St. and wooded area where the stream is located. Discussion followed over sketch..
Odland - At some point the stream becomes culverted and goes underground. How many properties does it become culverted?
McGuire - Discussed over plans - The biggest constriction is when it hits the wall and then it drops under the mountain and down through the hill. I have to have it cleaned out every once in a while. The town will not take any responsibility for this. When it flooded my yard was washed out. T he house and the patio became a spillway onto Mr. Balazs' house and yard. There is always a possibility that it will get wiped out. A couple of weeks ago it rained again and it flooded again. That lot is a way for the water to run out. Did Mr. Melenke understand this when he purchased the property?
Mr. Heincke - Unfortunately whatever happened makes no difference, because it does not back up onto my lot. Once it comes to my lot it runs free. This pipe was put in during hurricane Gloria. It is an aluminum spiral pipe. Mr. Tully in an emergency, put this pipe in because the old pipe broke. All that has been documented with pictures is true, but it would make no difference whatever you build her e because the water comes out of this pipe and flows normally. It is only during extreme conditions it overflows. This pipe was to capacity and then it rose and created damage to his house. Dan McGuire created a secondary exit that would simply dump it at a broad stream onto this property. When the l5 inch pipe is full, that is all it can handle. I suggest
having a small railroad tie on the northern side and along the driveway a wall and any excess will be diverted. Mr. Streaney's house suffered because when the water flooded it took pebbles along with it that went into a sewer system. I do not have to sell this lot. My house is immediately adjacent to this property and my sewer goes through this property and Mr. Streaney 's yard and whenever anything goes down stream and gets stuck it will back up into our pipes. That is why I offered Mr. Milenka a special price to purchase the land from me if he can install or divert this. I am not pushing sewage into his basement any more than when the combined sewer lines were stuffed up. I can do nothing for Dan because I cannot push water up hill. but for Mr. Streaney we can raise this so that when there are any bad weather conditions it will not go to the Streaney's yard, but
out into the gutter.
Albrecht - If the construction of this house takes away the absorption capabilities of this land will the water run off be stronger?
Heinke - When the ground itself is saturated it overflows.
Joe Streaney - 9 High St. - I do not know all of the WCC Members. (The WCC Members introduced themselves ).
Streaney - I have a lot of concerns about any proposed building on this lot and water absorption, elevation is not shown ,the proposed construction is on the property line and a number of concerns. Also, I am not familiar with the normal procedure in a case like this.
Odland - The party presents their case, the WCC Members schedule a site visit and we may schedule another meeting.
Streaney - The elevations concern me. There are no elevations showing this property in relation to the applicant's property. and Mr. Guire property and my property to High St. which is a difference in elevation from about 4 ft. to 12 ft. Knowing now how far this goes back it will probably be parallel to my property. With respect to the stream I would say about l980 there was a ditch or culvert pipe installed when the Village did the High Street drainage project.
Mr. Streaney submitted a copy of the original plans for the High Street project, which he stated he had received from the Village archives. Mr. Streaney stated the Village could keep the plans.
Sally Odland took possession of the plans and agreed to return them to the Village as soon as the WCC is finished reviewing them.
Streaney - These plans show the l5 inch pipe the village installed that went from Mr. Heincke property to the abandoned catch basin.
I will leave the plan with you (WCC) they belong to the village. The property is narrow and I will have to address the setbacks with the Zoning and Planning Board. A rain like the one we had Tuesday night the pipe cannot handle it and the natural trail that the water is leaving has widened over the years from the heavy rains. Over the years there has been much, much, more introduction of water due to the construction of Hudson National Golf Club and a couple of houses that have been built. Some have been damaged due to the hurricane. Now every time it rains we worry not just when there is a one hundred year storm. The water ran over my property. Re-contouring the property will be a greater determine to me. This plan does not show how the property will
be cut. The proposed driveway is a distance of 6 ft. to 8 ft. from the property line.
Discussion followed over elevations of property.
Streaney - My sewer does not run into Mr. Heincke's his runs to mine.
Heincke - No. My house was built in the early 20s
Streaney - Probably into a septic field.
Heincke - His house was not connected to a street sewer, but to my same sewer line. This is part of the deal, if this goes through. I will have my own sewer line and it will benefit Mr. Streaney. The only thing we can do during a hurricane is overflow, but with very little effort such as railroad ties which will provide a deflection so any overflow will run into the street.
Streaney - The Village Engineer went on private property in l980 to install a 15 inch pipe. How the Village went on private property to do this, I do not know. The real purpose he is here is to install a sewer line. His proposal to sell his property is to get a new sewer line for himself and then of course a new sewer line for the new house. I do not know how this will be built. You do not allow sewers to run over or under a steam. The catch basin joins almost at the property line and I am sure the Village will have to go to a great expense to make the lines meet because of the way the sewer is situated. Unless, we pipe the sewer completely, which is unlikely at this time? He just wants to repair a failing sewer line and he subdivides so he can sell and get a new sewer line. I
am in a terrible position with the sewer and water and in no way will building a new house here give me any relief. On the West side, I have no idea how this construction will take place. The proposed construction appears to be all house and very little property. Again this will not be a benefit to me. I have not heard of any improvements to the watercourse and run off. It is a rainwater system. So far all I heard is it is there and should stay there and maybe it should be cleaned up, but no indication of how it will give me any kind of relief.
Heincke - Now you get the overflow and there is nothing we can do about it.
Sally - I understand Kary Ioannou, Village Engineer had suggestions of rerouting the stream. What were the plans?
What was Mr. Tully's proposal?
Mr. Streaney showed pictures to the Board and discussion followed.
Odland - We cannot treat this as a natural wetland, because there have been so many alterations.
Discussion continued over pictures.
Streaney - There is a two-foot retaining wall, but the actual height of the property line is several feet.
Heincke - What I do not understand is what would you rather have, overflow as it is now, or a solution attempted to deflect overflow.
Milenke - In the future we will put a retaining wall, so automatically Mr. Streaney will be protected more than anyone.
Discussion followed over plans.
Streaney - Raising the elevation and leaving the pipe open will be needed and engineering will be needed here too.
Milenke - I spoke to an engineer and we have two options.
Mr. Milenke displayed pictures to the Board.
Odland - We cannot make a final approval.
Mr. McGuire - What would you call this?
Odland - In this case I would call it a waterway.
Marc - Apparently you are concerned about your house collapsing from the rain. What is the difference between your house and his house?
There was no reply.
Streaney - He says he may not live in it.
McGuire - There are a lot of maybes.
Odland - We will arrange a date that Kary Ioannou, Village Engineer is available to do a site visit to see the adjacent properties.
All neighbors who attended the meeting and voiced their concerns stated that their property was available for a site visit at any time the Board wishes to visit.
Streaney - I would like to see a complete set of details.
Heincke - It is my opinion that building a house is an advantage to Mr. Streaney and he is concerned it may not be done in a proper way. I also feel it should be done in a proper way. The brook runs into his hose and if built the sewer issue will be resolved.
Marc - Does the house help his problem or the wall?
Streaney - The property has not been maintained. The head wall disintegrated and the pipe has been filled with sand. The rip rap in the culvert had not been maintained for a lot of years and adds to the problem. Improving the property to some extend may help. But, certainly site improvements could improve all the drainage issues and make it better, but he has not done this. He has been aware of all this for years and I have to find a course now to protect my property and I request you do not allow this to take place at this point in time. Right now as it is, it is completely unacceptable to me.
Heincke- I understand your concerns and they can be addressed.
Odland - We will need to see some sort of elevation plans before a site visit.
Odland - Are there any other questions?
There were no further questions or comments.
Hearing adjourned.
TEMPLE /SEPTIC:
Odland - At the last meeting we handed a copy of packets from Rick Herbek of three respondents for the bid proposals to locate the sewer system and test to see if it is leaking and the quality of soil. I spoke to Kary Ioannou, Village Engineer too. Rick Herbek said the Board of Trustees voted this week to approve the funds to hire the firm we recommended The Board gave the Temple a chance to pay for it, but they declined. The cost will be in the realm of $3,000 and the work will be done soon, hopefully.
DUCK PONE:
Odland - They are still hoping to dredge with in house contractors it in house. I did mention Charles Kane's suggestion for sediment traps and Rick Herbek seemed to concur. I suggested it be done at the same time.
Kane - It appears the flashboards have been put back in.
Odland - I thought so too, but Rick Herbek said they have not been put in.
KAPLANS POND:
Odland - Marc and Charlie and I went on a site visit and did not see anything. Dan Salzberg is willing to go out to the site with us to point out the location of the septic.
Odland - Janice Fuentes, WCC Secretary, sent us a copy of the WCC Resolution regarding the Temple and I have read the conditions. We will now wait for the engineering study.
Odland - There was a fair amount of debris around Kaplan's pond. I suggest it be cleaned up.
WCC LIASON:
Odland- Leo Weigman is replacing Sam Watkins as liaison for the WCC.
Discussions closed.
Respectfully submitted,
Janice Fuentes
WCC Secretary
4/18/01
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