DRAFT FILED: 9/1/04
FINAL APPROVAL:10/13/04
VILLAGE OF CROTON ON-HUDSON, N.Y.
WATER CONTROL COMMISSION
MEETING MINUTES OF SEPTEMBER 1, 2004
MEMBERS PRESENT: Stuart Greenbaum, Acting Chairman
Vita Rhodes
Jason Stern
ALSO PRESENT: Dan O’Connor, Village Engineer
MEMBERS ABSENT: Mark Goldfarb
Mary Cain
Meeting came to order at 7:30 P.M.
APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
7/21/04 – Greenbaum – Motion to accept as corrected
Rhodes – Second the Motion
Vote – 3-0 – Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern, O’Connor
HEARINGS:
Elton Robinson, Nordica Drive, Section 79.14 Block 1 Lot 11. Located in a RA-25 District. Request for a Wetland Activity Permit with respect to a proposed two-story house. (Adj. on 6/16/04)
Robinson: Asked the Board Members if they received a copy of the revised plans.
Greenbaum: We just received them this evening.
Robinson: I really don’t have much more to say than what was discussed at the last meeting.
Greenbaum: If you can, just hit the major points. I think you did an excellent job with diligence and I appreciate it.
Robinson: There are a couple of small changes to the plans. I have to reassure you that after the storms of last week, there were no signs of any moving water, or standing water. What we are proposing to do is drain everything from the roof into a drywell.
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Rhodes: The only concern is the steep slope, is it going to just reamin wild and whatever happens, happens there? What about soil testing and the stability fo the disturbed area? Has soil testing been done in that area yet?
Robinson: Not really. I walked around in there and there is a lot of rock.
Rhodes: So at the time of the preliminary digging, that’s when, I think, if there are any issues, we would have to monitor or perhaps soil testing and testing of the stability of the area during construction should be certified perhaps by the engineer and of course it is going to be monitored.
Robinson: We have some issues with the crawl space and how far down we can go. I did walk this far down, whether its rocks, its hard to tell, there is a lot of obstruction. The entire area is boulders, everywhere you go. As I also stated, the house on the lot immediately to the north, which has been there for fifty years, is the only house that I could described as ***. It’s not the same plane, not the same flat area.
Rhodes: You are talking about the house that has the boat?
Robinson: Yes, it’s built very much the same way. The house to the south is an entirely different situation. It wouldn’t be legal by anybody’s standard right now.
Rhodes: And that is how old?
Robinson: It was there when I moved in, fifty some odd years old.
Greenbaum: Well, in as much as this is a pretty controversial project, I’d like to state for the record and based on whatever decision is made, I’d like to reference section 227-24 regarding the standards for permit decisions:
1. The environmental impact for this project, being the environmental impacts have been discussed, and the site visit has also been conducted.
2. Are there alternatives to the proposed action? The proposed house has been reduced in size and relocated as close to the road as possible without a permit from the ZBA.
3. Health and Safety: The project will, in our estimation, will not have a deleterious effect on the general health safety economic and general welfare of the residence of the village or its neighboring.
4. Wetland Safeguards: The safeguards have been designed into the project including: erosion and sediment control devices, minimal disturbance, proper areas, the top of steep slopes, drainage control, etc.
5. Ground water safeguards being employed to protect the Croton River as mentioned above.
6. Environmental Protection: The design will incorporate sufficient safeguards to protect environment.
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7. Is there an alternative site? Obviously there is no alternative site for the proposed activity, but is has been reduced in the scope and the applicant shifted it as far as possible from the Croton River.
This area of the Croton River, according to the Village engineer, is not designated as freshwater wetlands by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation. It is noted that the project needs to exceed fifty foot bumper distance from the Croton River as such the proposal does not require a DEC protection aboard this permit. Finally our conditions of approval section 227-25 - The proposed activity is consistent with legislative intent of chapter 227. The public health and Croton River will not be harmed by the proposed action in our judgment. Finally, there is no alternative or practical alternative to the proposed action, and based on our review, the proposed activity, there is no alternative to the proposed action other than not to build the home. The proposed activity with
design protections implemented will not harm the Croton River, Finally, the burden of proof, which you have described in your letter, you have submitted written evidence that the environment will be protected and that the applicant, if this project did not go forward, would suffer undo hardship. So therefore, I think we are inclined to grant the permit with conditions that one of my colleagues, Vita Rhodes has just outlined to you regarding the testing of the soil during construction. Obviously we would want, the usual safeguards for erosion and sediment control, hay bail, silk fences, etc., we want to make sure that this side is stable, if during the course of construction, there is any collapse resulting in more steep slopes, a stop work order would have to be immediately issued and a re-determination made before any further work is done on site. Any other questions or comments?
(no comments were made)
Hearing Closed
Greenbaum: Made motion to grant the permit with conditions that the soil be tested during the construction.
Rhodes: Second the Motion.
Vote 4 – 0 In Favor Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern, O’Connor
John Alfonzetti, P.E. on behalf of M&A Real Estate Development Corp., North Riverside Avenue. Section 67.19 Block 1 Lot 4.02. Request for a Wetlands Activity Permit for proposed grading disturbance and addition of fill within a Wetland Buffer area with respect to a proposed subdivision of subdivision of Lot #3. (Adj. on 5/4 & 6/16/04)
Alfonzetti: I believe everyone has a copy of the plan I submitted last week. The revised plan and Wetlands remediation?. We received this afternoon, a letter from Mr. Donohue, who has reviewed this latest plan, made several comments and conditions to this plan. I’m not really sure these are major items, I think most of these are items we can certainly work on. Apparently instead of specifying a 3” caliper tree, it appears that either I wrote down, or the arborist wrote down a 3” DBH tree, which is considerably bigger than a 3” Caliper tree. You remember, we were before the board a couple months ago regarding the additional parchment we had on the wetlands, we were here originally to ask for an amendment to the wetlands permit. When they constructed the
wall, they, I guess they overstepped the boundaries somewhat, and we were here and I think the board was going to schedule a site walk through and take a look at the wall, but we were composing additional remediation to amend the permit, hopefully satisfy the board with. Page 4
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Rhodes: I’ve read through the letter.
Alfonzetti: Is that today’s letter?
Greenbaum: August 31, 2004, it is addressed to the building engineer.
Rhodes: He felt that there were quite a bit that remains without response, as you pointed out, the reduction of trees is an error.
Alfonzetti: Precise.
Rhodes: The other issues is that he stated here that this is too heavy for a hand cart, the 3” Caliper, now the 4” Caliper, is that…
Alfonzetti: Well, we had originally, on the previous plan, approximately a month ago, submitted a 4-5” Caliper tree, at that time, in the previous letter, he actually stated that he thought that was too harsh, okay, in his letter of August 10th. Again, addressed to Mr. O’Connor, the large 4 or 5” Caliper tree would probably also be too large. I spoke to Bruce this afternoon, he explained to me there are Arborists and there are Foresters. The Foresters thinks DBH, and an Arborist thinks Caliper. Evidently, the arborist than we have is a forester, so instead of writing 3” Caliper, he wrote 3” DBH, which is considerably smaller in size. My impression is that Bruce thought it would be able to be handled into the site.
Rhodes: Basically, my comments are the plans say, “All work shall be performed manually, no heavy equipment.” Is that still the intent?
Alfonzetti: That is the intent. I believe the intent on why Mr. Donohue responded the way he did is he thought the trees we proposed were a little bit large, and we should shrink them a little bit so we could handle them by cart.
Rhodes: But there are still issues ; like the shrub sizes are not given, and they need to be an adequate size for survival.
Alfonzetti: Quite frankly, we did not have a specified size on the plan, simply because I did not get one from Kevin the arborist. We will clear that up, and I’m sure we can get Mr. Donohue to approve whatever size…when I did speak to Bruce Donohue this afternoon, essentially we are going to incorporate his notes onto my drawing here. Specifically items wrapping the trunks, exact dimensions of the shrub sizes, we will correct the size of the larger trees.
Rhodes: And also there should be a warrantee. Is there any on the plan currently?
Alfonzetti: No there is not, but we can certainly put that on. I guess I would ask the board how we would want to enforce that warranty.
Greenbaum: We would probably ask you to present the bond to ensure that if there was a time to demise these plantings that they have adequate resources to replant.
Alfonzetti: Would that be something that should be on the plan? Or is that something separately we should address?
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Greenbaum: The resolution doesn’t have to be on the plan, we just want to make sure…
Alfonzetti: Do you have a value in time frame in mind?
Greenbaum: Well, it depends on the scope of the project.
Rhodes: Yeah, I mean, I thought I read something like 150…I don’t know what the cost is, if it’s a proportion to the cost, or…
Greenbaum: We need some help.
Rhodes: Yes, we need some help in determining what an appropriate bond is.
Alfonzetti: Well, I have an estimate from the nursery to purchase what was on the plan. The estimate to purchase all these trees and shrubs is $20,000.
Contractor Just for the trees.
Alfonzetti: That doesn’t cover the cost of the installation. But again, we have to weigh in the fact that how many of these trees would actually, unless we had a catastrophic failure, and all $20,000 worth of trees failed. There is some certain percentage of that…
Greenbaum: I certainly would want to be reasonable and appropriate, but we want to be accurate.
Alfonzetti: Time frame a year? Is that considerable.
Greenbaum: Yes.
Alfonzetti: I have Mark’s proxy here, I think $15,000 set aside for the bond would be considerable.
Contractor We sold the house…now we sell it cheap, now we pay, say we have to pay $20,000 for the trees, also we have to pay for the labor to do it, that’s another $10,000. I don’t think it’s fair to put a $15,000 bond just for one year. We have no room to plant those trees.
Alfonzetti: There are about 150 trees total.
Contractor How do we plant all these trees? It’s all rock, it’s not like we have a lot of land there. When we blasted the rock, we had no place to put the rock. We didn’t know where exactly the house was supposed to go.
Rhodes: I thought this area was disturbed, that’s additional disturbed area.
Contractor It was a lot of rock, we can’t find dimension of where house was supposed to go…talking about the bond, I don’t understand why, we sold the house. It’s a lot of money. They are scared of the people that they come and look at the house. The people that come, the first think that they do, they ask the village, “How much did they pay”? $43,000, the people get scared. We have to come down on the house 3 or 4 thousand dollars. The customer
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wants a house, when they ask the village the pond, the say $40,000, they scared, and they don’t put an offer on the house. We had the house for six
months on the market, we had one offer. Now is sold, we just signed contract this week. I want to finish, there is a lot of work over there. We have no room to plant all these trees. It’s all rock, how do we plant the trees over there? They don’t want to go for the machine.
Greenbaum: This is not this is not for the bottom lot, he is talking about here. (looking at plans)
Contractor It’s a lot of money. It’s $300. for each tree and we loose. We plant the trees, spend the $300., then we have to guarantee. It’s all rock over there.
Alfonzetti: I guess the nursery stated that we had a couple of trailer loads…
Contractor Yeah, a couple of trailer loads. They don’t want machines on the wetland. How are we going to plant these trees over there, I’m nervous.
Alfonzetti: Well, we are going with a 3” Caliper tree, it’s still going to weigh about 400 pounds.
Contractor How do we move it, by hand?
Rhodes: With adequate precautions and preparations, a track machine could be used. It’s a matter of finding the right person.
Contractor How do you bring the machines down there?
Rhodes: There are arborists that are capable of doing this.
Alfonzetti: What I would like to ask tonight, because these gentlemen do have the house under contract, we would like to resolve this matter tonight with the understanding between myself, Mr. O’Connor, Mr. Donohue and obviously the owners we will get together. We will satisfy him, but we will also get o the field and stake all these trees and make a visual inspection; okay, this one can’t physically go here, this one we can do, this one we can’t do. And then they can order the trees that are necessary. As far as the bond, I don’t know what the board will…
Contractor We can’t afford it. We have no money. We can’t afford to hire somebody to plant these trees. They have to get the trees from Virginia, from New Jersey, from South Carolina. It’s like five or six states. It’s costing me a lot of money, they have to come with two trailers. Maybe the new owner won’t want all the trees. There are also a lot of vines, the plans will die anyway. It’s very hard to keep it clean over there, there is a lot of vines. We sold the house, and we have to resolve the best that we can. We have to work together.
Greenbaum: The concern is, once these trees are planted, without any maintenance where you can go in there and clear where they were planted, they may very well get choked out. I’ve seen that area down there, it’s pretty congested.
Rhodes: That is the nature of the site, you accepted those conditions of the site when you built the house.
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Greenbaum: And that raises issues with the new owner, even if they have a warranty, it’s up to owner of the landscape…
Rhodes: What about the buffer zone? Can he clear-cut?
Greenbaum: Our definition of clear-cut doesn’t really affect shrubs and trees.
Rhodes: Has anything been done above the stone wall now? Because that was seriously eroding from all the water…
Contractor We were supposed to do the grass, next week we want to do the sod. That’s why we want to resolve everything. We have to put a catch basin on top of the wall to collect all the water. We have to put sod on the walkway on the side of the house.
Greenbaum: The issues that come in a year’s time, we are attempting to revegatate the area that has not been disturbed. It’s kind of going back to a natural state. It has been disturbed.
Alfonzetti: Yes, it has been disturbed. I’m not disagreeing about that, I’m saying the lower area down by the road, that’s where their concern is, how do we maintain, how do you keep a warranty on trees and shrubs that we have planted inside that thickly forested or congested area? Their concern is that it will be very difficult to warranty anything in that area.
Greenbaum: Your point is well taken, we can’t plant on top of rock. People have to get together and decide what’s possible and what is appropriate and have consensus on that, then go forward and just do it. We have to rely on the experts to make that judgment. As far as we are concerned, we are concerned with preserving that area over there, and if that kind of resolution does that, then we will be comfortable with that.
Rhodes: The owner of this house should understand what they are buying and that this needs to be a protected area. It’s a wetlands buffer. Is it correct that this pond technically is part of this property and this homeowner owns this pond?
Alfonzetti: No, well, they do own it, but they are not allowed to go near it.
Contractor The people next door, they put a fence all the way around it, we can’t go inside the pond area.
Anyone else like to be heard?
Hearing closed
Greenbaum: Made motion to grant the permit with conditions that the village engineer, our consultant and Alfonzetti parties will get together in the field, work out a reasonable and appropriate planting plan, and agree on that planting plan.
Rhodes: Second the Motion.
Vote 4 - 0 – Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern, O’Connor
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Michael Scott and Linda Weiss – Section 68.13 Block 3 Lot 15. Located in a RA-25 District. Request for a Wetland Activity Permit with respect to a proposed one-story and two-story additions.
Ping: I’m Mary Ping, I’m the architect. What we have is a one-story ranch and we propose to do a small addition in front to make a mudroom and extend the patio section and adding 500 square feet on the top floor.
Rhodes: What is the use of that?
Ping: It’s going to be a bathroom.
Greenbaum: (looking at plans) So there is a second floor addition, no material removal, there is no increase…
Ping: That’s right.
Greenbaum: And there is a one-story addition over the patio, with 90 yards removed off-site. (looking at a photograph) This photograph right here, that’s where the addition is going to go, right where the steps are.
Rhodes: That’s where the mudroom goes, this little portion here is going to go.
Ping: (showing plans and photo) This is a driveway, you go up the driveway. There is a little brook back here.
Greenbaum: And you are how far?
Ping: About thirty feet.
Rhodes: do the down spouts go into the storm drains?
Ping: They go into splash blocks.
Rhodes: There is village water supply?
Ping: Yes, village water and existing septic.
Rhodes: Has a dye test been performed on the septic?
Ping: Not that I know of.
Rhodes: Have you consulted with the health department concerning the…
Ping: No, but we have gotten permission to do our addition.
Greenbaum: How many bedrooms in the house now? Two new bedrooms are downstairs, and the new location of the prior downstairs bedroom will be turned into a living room?
Ping: That’s right.
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Rhodes: Have you consulted with the health department?
Ping: No
Rhodes: The issues is, the health department has criteria. You are a registered architect and you should be familiar with their criteria. They have specific definitions of what constitutes a bedroom. Our responsibility is to protect this, and if the septic fails or we don’t know what the capacity of the septic system is, and if it fails and then you do have to go to the health department, I think that is an issue that should be ironed out. The health department has ultimate jurisdiction.
Greenbaum: I have a question about the plans. With the septic system, the house has two bedrooms, there is no guarantee with the septic system that people in the house, say a family of six or seven, a lot more water flow, if the septic fails, you are opt again to fix it. The septics don’t last forever.
Rhodes: Well there is not much expansion area, where is the expansion?
Rhodes: What is the total square footage of the existing house?
Ping 1200 square feet.
Greenbaum: Just a question about the roof drainage, does it make sense to have additional drywells to accommodate this?
Ping: Well, the downside hill is all rock.
Rhodes: You mean where you are showing the drywell?
Ping: This is an existing.
Rhodes: There is an existing? (reading the plans..”proposed roof drainage – drywell)
Ping: Where all the downspouts are, it's just rock.
Rhodes: it drops off right bout here.
Greenbaum: I’m just wondering if that amount of flow should be captured with the drywell.
Neighbors speaking: (Audrey and Tom Dinkler – 50 Batten Rd.
Mrs. Dinkler: Excuse me Mr. Chairman, while you are considering all of this, I have no objection to them expanding their house, but I live on Batten Road which is at the end of the mountain, they are on top, we are down below, and I would like you to take into consideration all the wetlands, and what they will be disturbing, or if they are going to add more water to the stream that she is talking about. If that stream goes down the mountain into our stream, we already have overflowing, before she even touches that stream and they have a study that which hasn’t even come out yet, if I’m correct, it’s still in the making up
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process, about our area and about our streams and about if being too small to handle all the water that comes off the mountain and off of Bramblebush.
Greenbaum: The study on the Batten Road has been completed.
Mrs. Dinkler: I have no objection to what they are doing, she is talking about the stream and she is talking about the run-off. I just don’t want her to get more water into the stream because we are going to get it. I would just like you to take Batten Road and the stream into consideration.
Greenbaum: Yes. You are adding a drywell where none exists right now?
Ping: That’s right.
Mr. Dinkler: The only other thing we would like to add is I think that some control could be taken care of for construction with the silk, because just within the past year or so, down on Batten Road, you can see that there is a lot of silk and it’s starting to build up.
Greenbaum: Well that would be a condition anyway, if we granted approval we would require you to have silk fencing and hay bails to ensure the permit of the construction site.
Rhodes: Is your property visible from the applicant’s property?
Mr. Dinkler: No.
Rhodes: One thing that would be useful in the future is typically a site map, and specifically since there is no relationship here, a site map typically is put in, I’m not even sure if they are even our application requests one, but it’s helpful to see relationships.
Ping: It doesn’t ask for one.
Rhodes: Okay, it sometimes is helpful, and we may need to request some things in the nature of…this site may not be what is effecting your issue.
Mr. Dinkler: This stream is up by Park trail, which goes down through the other trails which goes down through… and winds up going down to Batten Road and own behind Daily Drive and eventually ends up into the croton river. There are a lot of areas that will be affected. All down hills.
Scott: There is an existing house there putting on a second story over part of the house, so there will be very little disturbance during that process. The soil from the foundation will be taken off site so there would not be a stockpile and mulch. The silk fence and hay bails are generous in their location. Overall there will be a reduction in the runoff with the drywell.
Greenbaum: Any other public comments?
No comments.
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Hearing closed.
Greenbaum: Made motion to grant the permit with conditions hay bails and silk fences are installed.
Rhodes: Second the Motion.
Vote 4 – 0 Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern,
Respectfully submitted
Mona Senik
Acting as WCC Secretary
9/1/04
RESOLUTION
Elton Robinson, has applied to the Water Control Commission Board in the Village of Croton-on-Hudson, Request for a Wetland Activity Permit with respect to a proposed two-story house.
The property at Nordica Drive, is designated on the Tax Maps of the Village as Section 79.14 Block 1 Lot 11.
- A public hearing having been held on September 1, 2004, after due notice.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the application is hereby GRANTED as follows:
Motion was made by Greenbaum to GRANT a Wetlands Activity Permit with the following conditions
- Condition that the soil be tested during construction.
- Rhodes Second the Motion
Vote - 4-0 – all in favor – Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern
9/1/04
RESOLUTION
John Alfonzetti, has applied to the Water Control Commission Board in the Village of Croton-on-Hudson, Request for a Wetland Activity Permit for a proposed grading disturbance and addition of fill within a Wetland Buffer area with respect to a proposed subdivision of subdivision of Lot #3.
The property designated on the Tax Maps of the Village as Section Section 67.19 Block 1 Lot 4.02.
- A public hearing having been held on September 1, 2004, after due notice.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the application is hereby GRANTED as follows:
Motion was made by Greenbaum to GRANT a Weltlands Activity Permit with the following conditions.
- Condition that the village engineer, our consultant and Alfonzetti parties will get together in the field, work out a reasonable and appropriate planting plan, and agree on that planting plan.
Rhodes – Second the Motion
Vote - 4-0 – all in favor – Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern
9/1/04
RESOLUTION
Michael Scott and Linda Weiss, has applied to the Water Control Commission Board in the Village of Croton-on-Hudson, Request for a Wetland Activity Permit with respect to a proposed two-story house.
The property designated on the Tax Maps of the Village as Section 68.13 Block 3 Lot 15.
- A public hearing having been held on September 1, 2004, after due notice.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, that the application is hereby GRANTED as follows:
Motion was made by Greenbaum to GRANT A Wetlands Activity Permit with the following conditions:
The applicant shall install hay bails and silk fencing.
Vote - 4-0 – all in favor – Greenbaum, Rhodes, Stern,
9/1/04
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